tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343439372519556254.post1116249468714115117..comments2024-02-11T03:50:53.613-05:00Comments on Counterlight's Peculiars: What Ever To Do About the Episcopal ChurchUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343439372519556254.post-55271699880197789022012-07-22T13:34:59.151-04:002012-07-22T13:34:59.151-04:00Solving the quandary of specs and a dalmatic is, i...Solving the quandary of specs and a dalmatic is, in itself, a feat.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343439372519556254.post-69054440767936934132012-07-18T06:59:58.732-04:002012-07-18T06:59:58.732-04:00That's my concern about the future of the Epis...That's my concern about the future of the Episcopal Church, and other things reasonable and humane; that they are about to be ground to powder between the millstones of competing ideologies. I fear a rerun of the 1930s where people actually believed that a choice between Hitler and Stalin was realistic and reasonable.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343439372519556254.post-29469734686835530212012-07-18T06:57:07.088-04:002012-07-18T06:57:07.088-04:00Nancy P,
As a matter of fact, I did enjoy teachin...Nancy P,<br /><br />As a matter of fact, I did enjoy teaching at Berea, including dinners at the Boone Tavern.<br />While I was there, I found out that I had 2 relatives who went there decades earlier.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343439372519556254.post-24406189151118649992012-07-18T02:53:31.017-04:002012-07-18T02:53:31.017-04:00"Things fall apart, the center cannot hold&qu..."Things fall apart, the center cannot hold"<br /><br />It makes sense that in historically Jewish society, as in historically Christian society, we're seeing a stark division into fundamentalist theism and (increasingly fundamentalist) atheism (which I often call anti-theism).<br /><br />But of course, this leaves our Episcopal faith in a familiar place: the <i>Via Media</i>. <br /><br />And the Reality is, the Via Media has a lot in common w/ the "Via Dolorosa": Expect The Cross! :-0JCFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343439372519556254.post-63366912735635642532012-07-17T21:01:34.663-04:002012-07-17T21:01:34.663-04:00FYI, Conservative Judaism is not a raving success ...FYI, Conservative Judaism is not a raving success story now; many who were Conservative Jews have abandoned Judaism, or moved over to Reform, or gotten much more observant and become Orthodox, usually of the stricter kind. And the less strict Orthodox are also gradually assimilating into the stricter sort. Even those Orthodox who remain participants in secular life are usually more strict and less likely to stretch the boundaries than their parents might have been. The only real growing community in Judaism seems to be the stricter Orthodox, in fact. Part of this dynamic is tied to the Israeli right wing--this trend is making the settlers that much stronger, and is itself made stronger by the settlers.<br /><br />I've never been able to understand those "prosperity gospel" churches myself. It seems as some of the stuff Jesus taught, in the Sermon on the Mount and other places, directly contradicts their ideas. But obviously that doesn't worry them, does it?kishnevihttp://kishnevi.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343439372519556254.post-47330588035589958822012-07-17T20:28:06.923-04:002012-07-17T20:28:06.923-04:00BTW, did you like teaching at Berea College? When ...BTW, did you like teaching at Berea College? When I lived in Cincinnati,OH, I used to visit once or so a year to go to a bluegrass festival or simply to have a nice day/weekend trip, and a ginormous home-style dinner at the student-run hotel. I have a lot of respect for their mission of educating low-income Appalachian students via work/study.NancyPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343439372519556254.post-68780306156147387482012-07-17T20:21:42.414-04:002012-07-17T20:21:42.414-04:00Megachurches have a high rate of turnover. They st...Megachurches have a high rate of turnover. They stay afloat because they excel at marketing to new prospects, not because they excel at creating long-term community.NancyPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343439372519556254.post-11530553825819272992012-07-17T12:38:09.934-04:002012-07-17T12:38:09.934-04:00I agree with you about the mega-churches; I'm ...I agree with you about the mega-churches; I'm not sure they're preaching Christianity, and, from that perspective, seeing a lot of people there is troubling (though I want to make clear that's a general statement, and I'm not judging anybody's faith).<br /><br />I don't agree with the idea that people in more conservative (or whatever the word is) churches don't think critically - as opposed to simply reaching a different conclusion than their progressive counterparts. But I did find this moving: "We do a good job with those '...children at the gate who cannot pray and will not go away' in the words of TS Eliot. We provide a refuge and a home for those who left or were expelled from their churches and yet won't let go of their faith." That sounds like Christ's "the least of these." It's wrong for any church to abandon them.Sidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343439372519556254.post-38332218600777667382012-07-17T11:34:03.783-04:002012-07-17T11:34:03.783-04:00Sid,
A fair point.
On the other hand, I don'...Sid,<br /><br />A fair point.<br /><br />On the other hand, I don't think I would want the success of the mega-churches packing people in with the promises of prosperity gospel, or with charismatic (and frequently autocratic) preachers/motivational speakers.<br /><br />As a priest friend of mine once pointed out, any church that points out that the application of religious ethics to life is seldom clear and never easy is not going to attract huge crowds to join.<br /><br />I would agree that the Episcopal Church does a better job of keeping itself secret and under the radar than the CIA. Going out and beating the bushes for converts is not us. We are not driven by any apocalyptic "Turn or Burn!" urgency. We do a good job with those "...children at the gate who cannot pray and will not go away" in the words of TS Eliot. We provide a refuge and a home for those who left or were expelled from their churches and yet won't let go of their faith. Also, we provide a place for those who identify themselves as Christian, but are not willing subsume their critically thinking selves to some binding magisterium or to some literalist interpretation of Scripture. They see a conversion to Christianity as the beginning of an adventure, not the end of all adventuring. Perhaps this is why the majority of Episcopalians are converts.<br /><br />Perhaps I do sound pollyanna about the whole thing, but after thirty years and many miles, my experience has certainly changed but is no less happy. Those very actions of the church that alienated some people only made my allegiance to it even stronger. The election and consecration of Bishop Robinson was a watershed moment for me and a lot of other people. My church willingly took upon itself to share the scorn and alienation I've felt all of my life as a gay man. I was never prouder to be Episcopalian or more grateful to the Episcopal Church. I can't see any corporation or political party doing anything similar. I certainly can't see Rome or any fundamentalist church doing the same thing, though I hope I'm wrong about that.<br /><br />I continue to come into contact with remarkable people, and with courageously selfless people, through this church. I hope others can say the same thing about their churches.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2343439372519556254.post-75155220699566556092012-07-17T10:44:21.894-04:002012-07-17T10:44:21.894-04:00I think you make a lot of fair points, but you mus...I think you make a lot of fair points, but you must know that this is all anecdotal. I have personal experience, on the contrary side, with single Roman Catholic parishes (both conservative and not so conservative) as large as some Episcopal dioceses, and, yes, graying and dying Episcopal parishes.<br /><br />The numbers are what they are. Losing 25% of your members in 10 years is getting pretty close to apocalyptic, especially as neither you nor I can say for sure that rate of attrition won't continue or even accelerate. I don't see the purpose in being Pollyannaish about it; the Episcopal Church is failing with respect to attracting people to its philosophy. That doesn't mean the parish life isn't special, and that the remaining people aren't, as you say, happy to be there and happy to be with each other. And I agree with you also that Douthat's thesis is too simplistic.Sidnoreply@blogger.com