Tuesday, May 24, 2011

Christians Are All Exactly The Same

Your praise of the ...hallowed, and adored be Jesus Christ in His most glorious throne in heaven, in the most holy sacrament of the altar, and in the hearts of all of His faithful people."
Makes me ill! It is people like you who feel we have to keep beliving in a book like the Bible and those who claim to be "good Christians" and be like them and trust that they are "good at heart" when in truth ythey do hate us and want us dead! The polls are all lies since I find it hard to accept that if the vast majority of Americans and Christians say we should have equal rights, why then do we lose EVERY BLOODY TIME if we are on a balot fo gay rights?"

That's right. All Christians are exactly the same and on exactly the same page on the issue of LGBT rights.

There is absolutely no meaningful difference between these two Ugandan bishops.

Bishop Christopher Senyonjo, from a recent sermon preached in Dublin:

So, in Uganda, the heterosexual self-righteous people have drafted this Bill to exterminate the LGBT people. The Bill is draconian. According to President Obama, it is odious. The United States Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton; former Prime Minister Tony Blair, and others have opposed it. Yet – we still wait to hear loud voices from the churches.
It is the work of the bearers of Christ’s Gospel to go to the aid of the oppressed.
LGBT people are being attacked to the extent of extinction. But they have done nothing to deserve this criminalization. They did not create themselves. As a counsellor, I have shared many of their stories. They are good people who are being systematically abused, beaten up and even killed – for no reason other than simply being themselves. We have not allowed them a safe space to express themselves. Instead, there are law makers who would send them to the gas chambers!

And from Archbishop Henry Orombi,

From a plain reading of Scripture, from a careful reading of Scripture, and from a critical reading of Scripture, homosexual practice has no place in God’s design of creation, the continuation of the human race through procreation, or His plan of redemption. Even natural law reveals that the very act of sexual intercourse is an experience of embracing the sexual “other”. The Church of Uganda, therefore, believes that “Homosexual practice is incompatible with Scripture”

Yes, both of these statements from these two Ugandan Anglican bishops are exactly identical. No difference.

All Christians are exactly the same.

Here is Uganda's principal gay rights advocate, Kasha Jaqueline Nabagesera on her own work and on the murder of David Kato:

Both the late David Kato and Ms. Nabagesera identify themselves as Christians.

Here is Nigeria's leading gay rights advocate, Davis Maciyalla, who now lives in exile after repeated threats to his life.

He too identifies himself as Christian.


Tristan Alexander said...

And pointing out that one or two so called Christians are NOT trying to kill us does not prove a thing! I hear there were some good Nazis too, that does not mean being a Nazis is or was a good thing! I know there are individuals who try to be Christians who actually follow what Jesus said, but they are far to few and they do NOT represent the religion as a whole!

Counterlight said...

You're right, there was absolutely no real difference between Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Bishop Otto Mueller.

Tristan Alexander said...

YOU insist on making this a personal, one on one argument, and that is NOT what I am saying. So you think it is fine to be a Nazis? That following Hitler was not at it's core wrong and evil?

Counterlight said...

No, you're just being silly.

Tristan Alexander said...

NO, I am making a point that you wish to ignore!

Counterlight said...

No, you're being grossly unfair and unjust, as grossly unfair as all the people who stereotype gay people.

As Martin Luther King said, we must not become the injustice that has been done to us.

But, he was a Christian, so what the hell did he know about anything right?

Tristan Alexander said...

There are between 70 to 80 million to almost 2 billion Evangelicals in the world. These people think every word in the Bible is inerrant and that it says God Hates Fags! I spent many years in one of these churches and at one of their colleges. I have experienced lovely nice people who consider themselves “good Christians” and who all consider Gays to be evil and sinful and against God!

There are 2,225,682 baptized active members of the Episcopal Church worldwide as of 2008 and many of them also think the Bible is inerrant and even more think Gays are evil and against God…
so if you want to argue individuals, you may make points but I could list hundreds of Evangelical ministers and laypeople who preach that Gays deserve to die! I am not going to find videos of John Hagee, Franklin Graham, Rick Warren, James Dobson, Bishop Eddie Long, Phelps, Jerry Falwell and on and on to show how they spread hate as good Christians. They all have mega churches or Universities or both.

Counterlight said...

I am not, and never was, an evangelical or a fundamentalist. I don't give a rat's ass how many stadiums they can fill with people.
I'm not conceding to their claim to a patent on the Gospel, and I don't care if i'm in a minority or not.

Again, you are being very unjust, as unjust as the very people you listed.

Counterlight said...

This is getting very tiresome, and I have to give final exams to my students in the Bronx, who are not only predominantly poor and minority, but mostly Catholic and evangelical, with a substantial minority of Muslims.

You can tell them yourself that they are all the same as Nazis.

Tristan Alexander said...

Blind,deaf and dumb...clearly anything I say falls on deaf ears and you see only what you want! So I will stop replying as it is making no difference!

Counterlight said...

Right back at ya!

IT said...

i'm an atheist and I agree with counterlight. Indeed the mainline protestants and Roman Catholics (not the institutional church, mind, but the membership) are far more accepting and supportive of LGBT rights than the media reports (see, for the most recent example, here).

Tristan's protests and pain clearly reflect a close experience with one brand of awful "Christian" by which he chooses to tar all Christians. That is as mistaken as saying all gay men are promiscuous bois dancing in their underwear and sleeping around.

Dan Savage has challenged what he calls NALTS to "come out" and reclaim "Chsitian" from the bad guys. Counterlight is trying to do that. more should, certainly.

And Tristan needs to remember that the world is not painted in black and white. There really ARE some Christians who follow the itinterant carpenter who cured the least among us and preached unhesitating love. Generally, they aren't the ones who have the ear of the media.

it's margaret said...

Counterlight, I'll throw my lot in with you and IT.

Tristan --as a priest, on behalf of the church, I apologize for the hurt done to you and those you love. I am dreadfully sorry for the history of abuse --it was and is wrong. I ask for your forgiveness. And, I promise you, there are many who are working to change the future actions of the church.

JCF said...

Tristan, if you're a card-carrying gay man, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you've seen "Sweeney Todd."


You know the story: Sweeney's so righteously, obsessively set on avenging his beloved wife...

...that he ends up KILLING his beloved wife.

That's what that kind of RAGE can do. Devour what you love most.

Be careful.

We do Get It. We do. How could we not? We're queer, and stuck among (too many of!) the same Christianists you are.

But we're fortified, to continue to FIGHT the Battle, by the God of LOVE. We find that God in (Tradition, Reason and, yes) Scripture...

...the same Scripture the Christianists use as a weapon. But those f*ckers could use bouquet-of-flowers as weapon, y'know? The problem ain't a BOOK. It's hateful humans.

IT said...

JCF, using a musical reference (and Sondheim at that) to make a point..... you are SO GAY! ;-)